Liverpool Fc @ Anfield - Reds Supporters Gatherings

[KingEros]

Originally Posted by canthaveenuf

I tot Dalghish did quite a bit of good for Pools? Prob early on in his career? Maybe towards the latter part, too much pressure, can't take it and failed.

Dalglish's short tenure did bring in some more glory ... but I see it as a testament to what previous managers have done. He managed to sign the big players in their prime becoz all of them dreamt of making it as a LFC player in their youth ... but what Dalglish forgot to take care of is the youth policy that was supposed to ensure there was to be no vacuum when these same big players advance into their 30s.
He didn't quit becoz of pressures 'coz everyone loves him ... IMHO, he left becoz he knew he has messed up & he knew even more he didn't know how to clean up the mess.

[KingEros]

Originally Posted by canthaveenuf

But I do agree Dudek has to go. His heart seems to be gone liao. And with the latest outburst against Rafa, confirmed.

Was there an outburst?? Before or after these 2 massacre matches??
If it's before, then what logic would make Rafa still promise him the Cup games??
If it's after, I sure haven't read about it yet ... care to direct??

Originally Posted by canthaveenuf

Of course they will say dat lah. Must keep cards close to the heart mah. But he did let slip his intention. I won't be surprised if he is gone by season end.

How about a side-bet of $10??
I say Reina will still be around when the next season kick off ...

Originally Posted by canthaveenuf

Carson? He is on loan to one of the other EPL clubs right? Hopefully he gets enough experience and exposure and play time there before coming back. Dun quite remember him as being very fantastic though.

He's with Charlton ... I've not been impressed with what I saw of him so far too - but there must be some good reason why he's continued to be in the England squad: either there's a real dearth of goalkeeping talents in England or we really know nuts about goalkeepers.

[ukcheong]

Originally Posted by KingEros

Was there an outburst?? Before or after these 2 massacre matches??
If it's before, then what logic would make Rafa still promise him the Cup games??
If it's after, I sure haven't read about it yet ... care to direct??

Actually I think Dudek's misquoted - as usual in their press. He mentioned about his rustiness etc and they then somehow link it to saying he blames Rafa for not playing him in 1st team so therefore he was rusty.......

Anyway 3-0 today.... Crouchie two goals.

Originally Posted by ukcheong

Anyway 3-0 today.... Crouchie two goals.

Yap, 3-0. hope that Chelsea slip and Liverpool close the gap.

[blurlikefuc2]

i am a turncoat supporter

[Cummon]

After this 3-0 easy win,we should be more convinced with what Rafa said
in a recent interview :
We should look at the bigger picture .....we don't have the resources to compete at all four competitions.
I am sure we won't take him as a good manager if we win the Carling cup & finish 5th in the league.
Bring on Chelski !

[canthaveenuf]

Originally Posted by KingEros

Was there an outburst?? Before or after these 2 massacre matches??
If it's before, then what logic would make Rafa still promise him the Cup games??
If it's after, I sure haven't read about it yet ... care to direct??

It was not really an outburst lah. Wrong choice of word. After the 2nd match, he did say something about not being given enuf playtime, well, indirectly blaming Rafa loh. Dun think Rafa will appreciate that.

Originally Posted by KingEros

How about a side-bet of $10??
I say Reina will still be around when the next season kick off ...

I dun bet wan lah. Need money to cheong mah .....

Nonetheless, I am not so sure to be happy if Reina stays. He hasn't impressed me that much so far.

Originally Posted by KingEros

He's with Charlton ... I've not been impressed with what I saw of him so far too - but there must be some good reason why he's continued to be in the England squad: either there's a real dearth of goalkeeping talents in England or we really know nuts about goalkeepers.

He is with the Under-21s no?

He is still in the England squad becos they dun have good enuf goalies. The last well known one was the pony-tailed Seaman guy right? Who do we have now? Butterfingers James? Fat Robinson? Yep, they do have a dearth of goalkeeping talents.

Cheers

[canthaveenuf]

Originally Posted by Cummon

After this 3-0 easy win,we should be more convinced with what Rafa said
in a recent interview :
We should look at the bigger picture .....we don't have the resources to compete at all four competitions.
I am sure we won't take him as a good manager if we win the Carling cup & finish 5th in the league.
Bring on Chelski !

Supposed to be easy win, but I think they had to work pretty hard for it. Starting with 3 strikers .... wow, Rafa is either damn desperate or he has a great plan in mind. But looking at the play before the 1st goal ..... I hope he dun use this tactic again anytime soon.

It seems to me Kuyt looks kinda lost out there. And it was very predictable the way Pools play -- always trying to send high and long ball to Crouch to knock down to Bellamy and Kuyt. And most of the time, it falls in no mans land.

We were lucky we were playing against the last team in the league. If we play the way we played against Chelski ........ some heads will roll.

Hope Pools will buck up next Sat.

Cheers

[rahl]

Originally Posted by KingEros

I beg to differ ... there were so many things stacked against, I just dun think any other manager could have done any better:
1) the baggage of LFC's glorious reign ... think about it: it took us how many years to accept the fact that LFC cannot be winning everything for 30 years running ... or have we??
2) the bootroom concept ... it had to be someone from the ranks, therefore someone who has yet made a name for himself (as a manager) ... in other words, someone who is just a great LFC player previously.
3) the Pinnochio called Phil Thompson ... this big-nose is so big-headed he's ruined LFC twice becoz of his big ego; the 1st time, Souness had to sack him as reserve manager & the 2nd time, Houllier backed him over Fowler.

It's a good point you make abt the bootroom culture which has much less influence today since Houllier and Rafa. Altho it is to some extent due to Souness and Evans' failings that the management has realised the need to open up and change things.

But I don't think you can pinpoint the bootroom culture or Kenny as the main reason for Pool's decline. If we had gotten Keegan instead? Toshack? Or even Evans, Lee or Thompson? I don't think we would have done worst and you can't whitewash the specific failings of Souness as manager. Look at the clubs he has managed since.

[rahl]

Originally Posted by canthaveenuf

Supposed to be easy win, but I think they had to work pretty hard for it. Starting with 3 strikers .... wow, Rafa is either damn desperate or he has a great plan in mind. But looking at the play before the 1st goal ..... I hope he dun use this tactic again anytime soon.

It seems to me Kuyt looks kinda lost out there. And it was very predictable the way Pools play -- always trying to send high and long ball to Crouch to knock down to Bellamy and Kuyt. And most of the time, it falls in no mans land.

Cheers

Good point. It seems when we play the weaker clubs we can roll them over by scoring first. But we often end up not being clinical enuf against the top clubs. We have a team good enuf to beat clubs like Watford. It was a good win in the end but let's not get carried away. Next weekend will be more revealing

[qw2op]

4 ur reading pleasure ...

Liverpool blind to the benefits of Wenger's vision
By Patrick Barclay, Sunday Telegraph

So Arsene Wenger says he is ''tempted" to keep faith with his youngsters and see if they are good enough to win the Carling Cup. Of course he is - and of course it gives him pleasure to say so. But the Arsenal manager, if he were actually to take that gamble, would be making the same mistake as Rafa Benitez did last Tuesday night. While resting players is all very well, risking humiliation is irresponsible. And Benitez must privately have feared his fringe players would be inadequate opponents for their Arsenal equivalents. Now he knows.

Wenger will surely approach a two-legged semi-final against Tottenham with plenty of respect: more than he showed Wigan last year. Then, he went north with his second string and, having lost 1-0, brought back Thierry Henry, Dennis Bergkamp and Jose Antonio Reyes for the second leg. Arsenal still lost on an away goal. Wenger will take fewer chances this time - and he has a stronger squad from whom to pick. But he will not be getting over-excited about the 6-3 triumph over as poor a Liverpool side as can be remembered.

From a Liverpool point of view, the only good thing to come out of the match was confirmation that, below a top shelf featuring Steven Gerrard, the quality cupboard is bare. Whoever takes over the club's reins from David Moores - and those boys from Dubai appear to be hesitating - will have to put it right.

Too much blame was heaped on Jerzy Dudek last week, I felt, although the real eyebrow-raiser came from a critic who seemed to hold the former manager, Gerard Houllier, partly responsible in that, despite having been recruited from the French FA, he had failed to create a semblance of the renowned Clairefontaine academy on Merseyside. As if he had not tried! So dim was his view of Liverpool's youth development when he arrived at the club in 1998 that he soon whisked Gerrard away to join the first-team group at their Melwood training ground. Neither Houllier nor his assistant, Patrice Bergues, who had run a highly successful academy at Lens, proved able to impose their joint ideas on the club establishment, which consists largely of fans - notably the chairman, David Moores, and chief executive, Rick Parry - and former players.

And Benitez? It was significant that, when he lamented the club's apparent inability to get the sort of bright young things in which Arsenal specialise, he talked of buying them, as if he did not believe they could be grown in his time. Things might or might not have been different if Houllier's advice on modernising this aspect of the club had been taken seven or eight years ago; Wenger and Liam Brady at Arsenal have, after all, left just about every rival standing in that period. But sooner or later, if Liverpool are to rebuild convincingly, they are going to have to stop using bricks without straw.

[niteowl]

CONGRATS this thread for hitting 10,000 viewership since it was launched on 02-09-2006. Hope that next week Liverpool will beat Chelsik in the EPL like my 1121 replied posting. Half-time 1-1, Full-time 2-1 to Pools for winning.

[KingEros]

Originally Posted by canthaveenuf

Supposed to be easy win, but I think they had to work pretty hard for it.

Yup, they did ... but any other team would too - did you see how horrendous a condition the pitch was in?? Almost every ball bobbled here bobbled there .. how to play good football??

Originally Posted by canthaveenuf

Hope Pools will buck up next Sat.

Well, unless they win ALL the remaining games at Anfield ... every trick Rafa try to pull this season will mean nothing. So, let's ALL sing louder YNWA.

[KingEros]

Originally Posted by rahl

It's a good point you make abt the bootroom culture which has much less influence today since Houllier and Rafa. Altho it is to some extent due to Souness and Evans' failings that the management has realised the need to open up and change things.

First, you've misunderstood my point on the bootroom culture ... I'm not criticising it on its own merit. What I was saying is that at that time, it was a tradition everybody associated with LFC felt very proud of, so nobody was gonna trash it ... as a result, the next manager could only be the best amongst whoever qualifies under LFC-connected.

After Dalglish, who else could it have been (if not Souness)?? Toshack was groomed & made his name in Spain, while Keegan & Lee just hung up their playing boots ... Thompson was only the only other in contention, that's why he gave Souness so much trouble in his capacity as reserve team coach. Over that incident, the Kop chose to back Thompson (a Scouser) over Souness (a Scot), considering both have been equal on contributions as former LFC captains.

As for Evans, I really pity him ... he loved the club so much that he allowed the powers that reigned to use him like a puppet. First, they named him manager ... then, they deemed that he was doing well but it could be better if he could team up as joint-boss alongside Houllier ... in the end, he just had to keep his dignity & offer to leave. IMHO, he was there just to lessen the impact of 2 deviations:
1) LFC moved away from the bootroom culture
2) LFC conceded that the greatest club in England had to be managed by a foreigner

Originally Posted by rahl

But I don't think you can pinpoint the bootroom culture or Kenny as the main reason for Pool's decline. If we had gotten Keegan instead? Toshack? Or even Evans, Lee or Thompson? I don't think we would have done worst and you can't whitewash the specific failings of Souness as manager. Look at the clubs he has managed since.

What specific failings?? The man won the FA Cup in his 4 years as boss.
As for the others, only Toshack has achieved something in Spain ... Keegan will always be remembered as the Newcastle manager who threw away the title becoz he succumbed to Ferguson's taunting ... Lee & Thompson is still not good enough to be hired as managers, to this very day!!!

[KingEros]

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/past_...ayers/souness/


The above-linked is a piece on Souness (both as a player & a manager) found in the official LFC website no less ... & I'd like to draw ALL's attention to the part of his term as manager:

However his time as manager at the club has become synonymous with mistakes, ill-judged media representation, poor transfer decisions and falling standards on the pitch. Mature reflection by Souness and the Club shows that in fact his managership was not without success and his failures were not totally of his own making. Liverpool won the FA Cup in 1992 and this was despite life-threatening heart surgery in the days prior to Souness gingerly leading out his players.

Souness sadly, marred this triumph by poorly timed publicity in the Sun newspaper. He explained the story himself in 1999, in an interview with Garth Crooks: "Because the game went to penalties, the paper missed the deadline. That picture [of Souness with his future bride] ended up in the newspaper on the Wednesday - the anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster. I should have resigned then, looking back.

"I will forever be sorry it happened. It was out of my control. I was in hospital having an operation which, as it turned out, was life threatening. It was a foolish mistake, but when somebody tells you at 37 that you are going to have open heart surgery and that you might die, how would you react? I reacted in a way which I'll regret for the rest of my life. I'm sorry to the people on Merseyside whom I offended and I shall eternally be sorry".

In other respects as Souness himself reflected in December 1999 "in the right place at the wrong time". He explains: "What has happened since has gone to prove that I was not to blame for all the ills...my problem was that I tried to change it too quickly." He admits that he was shocked to the core by a change in the attitude amongst his squad and that this led to rapid hiring and firing as he sought to remove players who despite ability, offended this dedicated professional: "I found the change of mood in the dressing room both startling and alarming. How could standards have slipped so badly? I could not accept the lack of determination and fire in their bodies to win games for Liverpool".

Whilst this was a sentiment shared by all Reds fans, his choices of replacement was at times woefully poor, with Paul Stewart and Torben Piechnik standing as testimony to this fact. The removal of the 'Boot Room' under Souness is often quoted as one of his great mistakes - in actual fact it was a proposal planned by the directors at the time of Dalglish and was not a Souness decision.

All the training and behind-the-scenes work had been, and continued to be, managed by Ronnie Moran. No changes were made to a system that had worked for years. The conversion of a small boot store to a press room has become a symbol of the frustration of the fans, whereas it played no actual part in the under-achievement of this period.

Souness is an intelligent, articulate and highly motivated man, he was an awesome captain for the club and gave his all to the job as manager. Sadly his memory is still tarnished, but perhaps in time his faults will be forgiven and his valuable F A Cup win given the appreciation it is deserved.

So, my fellow Reds ... do not make Souness a scapegoat for what he did not do.